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Thread: Ship Change Suggestions

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    157

    Ship Change Suggestions

    Based on what I've learned in the current Event, Yuletide Trades, a couple of ships need to have the criteria changed.

    The ISS has too easily become a tool of the Red. With an ISS and the XP required to get one, you become virtually undefeatable by anything but your own stupidity (which I also learned in the event )

    Once your XP is high enough to get the ISS you can easily evade FSS with, at the most, only taking a hit of 3600 fighters, that's less than 600k credits at 159 each. That can easily be made up with 2 steals, I was taking 424k per steal. Some good ports would give me more than 2 mil in credits.

    In addition, a Red in an ISS can only be killed by either an IC, 2 CB's or an ISS and another ship and as long as Iniative is tied only to XP they can evade anything but an IC, assuming that the IC's are functional.

    So essentially a Red in ISS can roam the galaxy with impunity.

    The ISS was designed to reward good traders for their good service to the Federation, not become a weapon of evil traders.


    With that in mind, here is what I propose.

    Please don't scream and throw rocks at me until I am completely finished.

    First - Fix the Red Fed Space Attack Bug so that Reds can be attacked in Fed Space by Blue players.

    Change the ISS in such a way as to make it less of a invincible tool for the Red.

    1. Either tie Iniative to Alignment, as well as XP, so that the more negative the alignment the lower the ability to
    evade.

    OR

    2. Once someone goes Red in an ISS take away the ability to transwarp while in Fed Space.

    OR

    3. Once someone goes Red in an ISS, lower the ATT/DEF ratio along with the Iniative so that another ISS can defeat
    them.

    The 1st and 3rd ones are the more acceptable one, that along with fixing the Red attack bug, will make it easier to take a Red player out of an ISS.


    Now, in order to offset this, another ship needs to be modified.

    The Havoc is the 2nd choice of Reds.

    Current
    Max Fighters = 10000
    Max Shields = 3000
    Holds = 100

    Proposed
    Max Fighters = 7500
    Max Shields = 6000
    Holds = 200


    This would give the Havoc just a little more power and double the range that it currently has and would make it a more desirable ship for Reds. I know currently with a Havoc, in Yuletide Trades, I have to get shields after 2 full busts (meaning max hits to the shields for what I can steal)


    We all know and have seen how a Corporation with a powerful Red can dominate a game. There is no way for honest traders to match that.

    Comments that don't involve throwing me out an airlock are appreciated!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    19

    Ship Change Suggestions - additional thoughts

    Even though I played with probably two of the best red players in the Yuletide Trades event. I tend to agree with Cubified's suggestions, with a few exceptions.

    I personally think the ISS should be unchanged EXCEPT for if the alignment goes below zero, stealing stops! No more steals possible in the ISS.

    So what red needs is another ship type with say 40K fighters and 6000 shields and a slightly reduced attack ration, say a base of 1.4 instead of 1.5. Also to get one might require 14K experience and -6500 alignment. These are just some suggestions.

    I think the red players would like Cubified's suggestion for the Havoc! 25% fewer fighters for 100% more shields. In the hands of a skilled red player the Havoc is a slippery and hard ship to kill, mainly used for stealing not fighting!

    Cortez



    Quote Originally Posted by Cubified View Post
    Based on what I've learned in the current Event, Yuletide Trades, a couple of ships need to have the criteria changed.

    The ISS has too easily become a tool of the Red. With an ISS and the XP required to get one, you become virtually undefeatable by anything but your own stupidity (which I also learned in the event )

    Once your XP is high enough to get the ISS you can easily evade FSS with, at the most, only taking a hit of 3600 fighters, that's less than 600k credits at 159 each. That can easily be made up with 2 steals, I was taking 424k per steal. Some good ports would give me more than 2 mil in credits.

    In addition, a Red in an ISS can only be killed by either an IC, 2 CB's or an ISS and another ship and as long as Iniative is tied only to XP they can evade anything but an IC, assuming that the IC's are functional.

    So essentially a Red in ISS can roam the galaxy with impunity.

    The ISS was designed to reward good traders for their good service to the Federation, not become a weapon of evil traders.


    With that in mind, here is what I propose.

    Please don't scream and throw rocks at me until I am completely finished.

    First - Fix the Red Fed Space Attack Bug so that Reds can be attacked in Fed Space by Blue players.

    Change the ISS in such a way as to make it less of a invincible tool for the Red.

    1. Either tie Iniative to Alignment, as well as XP, so that the more negative the alignment the lower the ability to
    evade.

    OR

    2. Once someone goes Red in an ISS take away the ability to transwarp while in Fed Space.

    OR

    3. Once someone goes Red in an ISS, lower the ATT/DEF ratio along with the Iniative so that another ISS can defeat
    them.

    The 1st and 3rd ones are the more acceptable one, that along with fixing the Red attack bug, will make it easier to take a Red player out of an ISS.


    Now, in order to offset this, another ship needs to be modified.

    The Havoc is the 2nd choice of Reds.

    Current
    Max Fighters = 10000
    Max Shields = 3000
    Holds = 100

    Proposed
    Max Fighters = 7500
    Max Shields = 6000
    Holds = 200


    This would give the Havoc just a little more power and double the range that it currently has and would make it a more desirable ship for Reds. I know currently with a Havoc, in Yuletide Trades, I have to get shields after 2 full busts (meaning max hits to the shields for what I can steal)


    We all know and have seen how a Corporation with a powerful Red can dominate a game. There is no way for honest traders to match that.

    Comments that don't involve throwing me out an airlock are appreciated!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    157
    Quote Originally Posted by Cortez View Post
    Even though I played with probably two of the best red players in the Yuletide Trades event. I tend to agree with Cubified's suggestions, with a few exceptions.

    I personally think the ISS should be unchanged EXCEPT for if the alignment goes below zero, stealing stops! No more steals possible in the ISS.

    So what red needs is another ship type with say 40K fighters and 6000 shields and a slightly reduced attack ration, say a base of 1.4 instead of 1.5. Also to get one might require 14K experience and -6500 alignment. These are just some suggestions.

    I think the red players would like Cubified's suggestion for the Havoc! 25% fewer fighters for 100% more shields. In the hands of a skilled red player the Havoc is a slippery and hard ship to kill, mainly used for stealing not fighting!

    Cortez

    I think that part of the issue with new ships is licensing. I don't think current Sylien agreement allows for new ships in the game, but a modification of an old one.....

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    83
    I used to feel as strong as Cubified about red in ISS; if not more so.

    However, after recently playing red in ISS and seeing how effective Wayouts is in ISS, I don't believe a change is necessary.
    It is extremely easy to knock a red player out of an ISS if you have the kahunas to do it, a little support and some patience.
    If the fed space combat is ever fixed it will be even easier.

    I think this is just another case where a little aggression will defeat a seemingly unfair advantage.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    495
    I feel that the first step would be to get Fedspace in working order. Very important.

    Then yes, we could possibly make the ISS less appealing to be used by Red players such as not being able to fly it, or being less efficient (like the TW not being functional in FS). We'll have to look at what would work, what is possible, and like Cubified says, what we can do under the license.

    For now, I'm sure we want to fix things first, then look at how we can get things fixed proper with the ISS/Red combo, if anything.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    168
    Quote Originally Posted by kyletwt View Post
    I used to feel as strong as Cubified about red in ISS; if not more so.

    However, after recently playing red in ISS and seeing how effective Wayouts is in ISS, I don't believe a change is necessary.
    It is extremely easy to knock a red player out of an ISS if you have the kahunas to do it, a little support and some patience.
    If the fed space combat is ever fixed it will be even easier.

    I think this is just another case where a little aggression will defeat a seemingly unfair advantage.
    A few extra responses:

    1. (I think kyle might have meant wayouts in an IC?) But, yeah, Leh has already said the IC doesn't work the way he wants, and if he follows through in upgrading the IC, it will mean it will be EVEN easier to pick off an ISS with an IC. Thus, I think that solves Cub's concern. As Kyle said, it's already fairly easy with just a touch of coordination.

    2. The Havoc is strong enough already! It's a totally different kind of strong than the ISS... but a good red is virtually invincible with the cool way cloaks work now. The advantage for Reds with the havoc is they can go about their massive stealing/money making almost without bother. The advantage for Blues is fire power to help in conquest. They are different benefits, but that is okay. That's part of what makes TWR fun and strategic.

    3. If you want to help the havoc, then make the user interface for twarping QUICKER. That's the real pain for havoc flyers, is that since the holds are small, it takes so long to twarp around. Yes, adding holds might help, but it seems like a smarter fix is to make the UI for twarping QUICKER.. like less clicks, more intuitive, faster to do the whole thing. Right now it's too slow, that's why most players don't bother (and lose games because of it). (-- this would make shield refills for havoc people less painful too)

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