View Poll Results: Would you like TWR and system to go Free and Open Source?

Voters
9. You may not vote on this poll
  • Absolutely, that would be really cool!

    1 11.11%
  • I don't know. Depends....

    3 33.33%
  • No. I want Sylien to update it and keep it private.

    2 22.22%
  • Only to help debug while Sylien keeps updating the core

    3 33.33%
Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: A Sylien Games idea - Open source?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    495

    A Sylien Games idea - Open source?

    Hey guys,

    We're talking right now in the team that it may be a good idea now to actually open up the game to be open to code into for some select few people. that way, these selected interested parties can start making modifications and fixes to the code themselves, fix TWR and make fundamental logic improvements that we have a hard time to make ourselves due to time and funding constraints. Eventually we'll open it to a broader group of community programmers and open it up further allowing you guys to make your own mods, and even your own unique games in an open way (and help distribute develop and promote too).

    So in a sense its like a controlled private project of collaboration with willing members of the community, more so than a true Open Source project under a GNU or GPL license etc...

    This wouldn't be too much effort to set up on our part, but still significant so your feedback is important.

    Would like to open the discussion on this now and a little poll.

    This would imply that TWR would go to a totally free status with all that it implies and that the new development would occur on a test server (no live development of course). It also means that we'll need to figure out a way to manage Premium members versus Regular players in a proper way (we're not flipping the switch now, only after things are discussed with you and a proper transition is figured out, IF we decide ultimately to go that way).

    We're thinking of opening the project to Donations so that the community at large can collaborate that way and also gets to choose what update they want to see in general in the core (developed by Sylien), and chosen devs can write changes off of that when its done etc....

    Anyway, lots of ideas to actually give most of it to the community to progress it.

    Let us know what you think!

    Lehmund
    Last edited by Lehmund; 11-07-2013 at 04:56 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Everett, WA
    Posts
    20
    Hello Guys,

    My two cents is to keep the code private or contracted out some how. Open source is nice but when we still have issues with the basic core you can create more problems than you fix.

    I was a software writer in my younger days and did a number of database programs. When you have lots of pointers that need being kept track of it is really easy to exceed a stack when you don't plan on it. That was or may still be a problem we have when a game is really big, troubles with it locking up. that is a stack overflow more than likely.

    I think suggestions on ways to improve and make it a bit more like the bbs game would be great.

    Probes that can be lauched.
    One Way tunnels, those were really neat!
    being able to tow a corp members ship
    being able to park a ship in the citadel and have a corp mate borrow it.

    Those are a few of my ideas.

    Comments?

    Blue

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    495
    Vadis clarified what the "Open source" is all about here:
    http://forum.tradewarsrising.com/sho...ject-Explained

    In a nutshell, we are thinking of giving people access to debug the game itself and to modify somewhat the game engine but in no way to actually apply modifications to the game. At least not to start. Part of the reason is License issues.

    In order to avoid messiness and keep control, the core elements will remain private and only we'll be able to make changes. So think of it more along the lines of a collaboration between Sylien Games and a few developers that want to put a hand in making the game better.

    There will be no GPL or GNU on this. We will control the releases, who will develop on this and we'll contribute our own stuff too in a collaborative way.

    We feel that is probably the way this game was meant to be "fixed" and improved upon.

    I made edits to my original post just to clarify things a bit. Let the feedback be our guide on this.

    Lehmund


    Quote Originally Posted by Bluemarble69 View Post
    Hello Guys,

    My two cents is to keep the code private or contracted out some how. Open source is nice but when we still have issues with the basic core you can create more problems than you fix.

    I was a software writer in my younger days and did a number of database programs. When you have lots of pointers that need being kept track of it is really easy to exceed a stack when you don't plan on it. That was or may still be a problem we have when a game is really big, troubles with it locking up. that is a stack overflow more than likely.

    I think suggestions on ways to improve and make it a bit more like the bbs game would be great.

    Probes that can be lauched.
    One Way tunnels, those were really neat!
    being able to tow a corp members ship
    being able to park a ship in the citadel and have a corp mate borrow it.

    Those are a few of my ideas.

    Comments?

    Blue

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    25
    Not exactly sure how I feel.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Everett, WA
    Posts
    20
    Hello Again,

    Given the added information from Vader I guess I'm in favor of opening up the development a bit. More heads to kick things around and add features sooner to improve the game.

    I still stand by my list though

    Blue

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    495
    Quote Originally Posted by undead View Post
    Not exactly sure how I feel.
    I think many think the same way. We're pondering everything around this ourselves of course.

    I mean, on the one hand, we'll retain many more players by having it completely free. It will also help if there is more people behind the game pushing it forward. As you all know, much of the development is stalled due to financial concerns, so having help from the community to make the project grow will fix some things that will also help with retention and happiness in the community.

    On the other hand, I also feel for the Premium players that are out there that have supported the game for a long time through getting Premium membership. Sucks a bit to get "downgraded" in a way just like everyone else on a model. The transition would need to be done properly and we're definitively thinking of keeping some long term perk to those that have been around building this community with us for a long time. A kind of legacy token. Thinking out loud here of course.

    We have been working on TWR a bit lately, bringing it closer to an update. Movement is slow. Its really close to be able to be opened to a limited "open source" format as discussed, hence why we're discussing it now with the community.

    I speculate that doing this move well will liven the game alot and grow it in predictable ways (since we hold the keys to the code, always) positively and way quicker.

    We're open to any and all ideas around this and even other alternatives. Feel free to share.

    Lehmund

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    168
    It seems to me that something has to change. Right now, as far as I'm aware, there have been serious bugs unaddressed for months (years?) and the game and community has suffered because of it. Existing functionality needs to be fixed and made very stable before new features are considered, in my humble opinion.

    I guess a question that comes up in this -- if the game is completely free, how do you pay for the cost for the server? And for game moderation? Ads? Donations? Because that is a real issue too as seen recently with the latest server downage. I've never known any production server failure with any reputable company that should take days to get back online.

    Maybe there is a situation where the code is made open source, but Sylien could still charge a small fee to users to support the server hosting and administration of the games/events.

    So I applaud the out-of-the-box thinking here, and will think more on this wisdom of this, but either way it seems something has to be done and soon...

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    495
    As always, Dynoman is a real pro.

    I agree, the servers being down for that long was WAAAAAY no cool. Some of it falls on our provider having to replace hardware, then notice more hardware was faulty (affected by the initial issue), and then firmware afterwards.... It was a problem. Second impact was simply us trying to recuperate the game and database in its intact form from backups that were also affected, and without the local backups we used to have before our local computer caught fire a couple months ago (that is actually not a joke, a power surge burned through our industrial grade surge protector and that computer actually caught fire a little, burn marks to prove it. Most of the space was affected of course. I blame Thor.).

    Anyway, the idea here is to make the game and community progress forward and that is true, the servers and some other stuff do need to be supported.

    What we were thinking and haven't brought up yet is to set up a Donation system with a target amount to reach that is associated with a real feature and debug list. This would be alongside the Private Open Source concept mentioned above. The Donation box would serve to pay the basic project needs, fed by the hopefully increasing community (the game being free, we'll attract a bit more people to the project as a whole and game), and pay for development on our end of specific fixes and features needed either to facilitate the community coding or direct coding of the engine or game etc...

    Could look like this:

    Donate: $1555 / $4000 needed.
    - Pay for servers for next 6 months.
    - Recode the Map system fresh to prevent map corruptions and add Feature A, B and C.
    - Add to map system ability to add notes and color codes on sectors.
    - Integrate fresh hooks into the map system to facilitate community edits from community programmers.

    A bit like crowdsourcing, the community feeds into it to support the hobby. We input into it on our own as well, as we usually do and organize the coding community to help out etc...

    That way, its still a community guided effort, and as a team we get things done.

    Step one for us is to figure out then how we'll switch things to a Free model nicely and prepare the code package for other develpoers to start digging into the test server, work with them on how to make edits properly etc...

    It'll take a month to figure much of it out properly we think.

    Once this thing is off the ground with people interested in making code edits, I think it can take a life of its own, though we'll remain in the center as controllers overall.

    Can work really well if set up properly.

    Thanks Dynoman for your input. It is important to think about the expenses here and certainly the idea has always been to work with you guys on making TWR a cool game and a success. This just may be a better way to work with the community alot more without you guys waiting for us to be able to move on things with any speed...

    Comments and more suggestions are indeed welcome.

    Cheers!

    Lehmund


    Quote Originally Posted by dynoman View Post
    It seems to me that something has to change. Right now, as far as I'm aware, there have been serious bugs unaddressed for months (years?) and the game and community has suffered because of it. Existing functionality needs to be fixed and made very stable before new features are considered, in my humble opinion.

    I guess a question that comes up in this -- if the game is completely free, how do you pay for the cost for the server? And for game moderation? Ads? Donations? Because that is a real issue too as seen recently with the latest server downage. I've never known any production server failure with any reputable company that should take days to get back online.

    Maybe there is a situation where the code is made open source, but Sylien could still charge a small fee to users to support the server hosting and administration of the games/events.

    So I applaud the out-of-the-box thinking here, and will think more on this wisdom of this, but either way it seems something has to be done and soon...

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    168
    Leh,

    I like the idea of the donation tracker with a few specific measurable goals. Great idea!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1
    I also agree with opening up controlled development up a bit. Donation bucket seems reasonable. Being an avid Trade Wars Fan from the old BBS days back in the 90's, I would really like to see this take off and the bugs sorted out. I'm a software developer myself, so if there is development help needed, I'd love to chip in to see my favorite game succeed.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •